i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.
once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.
and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.
slim, it's difficult to have a reasonable discussion when basic word meanings get changed. Your use of collapse is similar to the WTS use of generation. Collapse is sudden. 80 years is not sudden.
If you want to say the will go into a decline and the numbers will soon stop growing and move negative, then fine. That's just not collapse in any sense of the word.
It's fine, believe what you want.
a&e has a new show this season called cults and extreme belief.
the second episode will air on 5/29 at 9:00 pm and jehovah's witnesses will be featured.
hopefully they do a good job exposing them for what they really are.
Nice, can't wait to check it out!
i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.
once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.
and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.
Here's the part that I just don't get. I'm clearly in the "Borg's going to be around awhile" side of the debate. Do they have long term apathy issues that will need to be addressed? Yes. Do I think they will address those issues? Not in a meaningful way since their response is always to double down on their pressure. Will they continue to experience slow growth and likely shrink in a significant way in the decades to come? YES. Will JWs be around in some fashion long after I am dead? Yes. Maybe they will shrink to just a handful but all you need is a small hard core set of believers.
Yet, when I see these debates, I see slim taking multiple sides. Look at this thread. 1 hour slim says
Actually I think just now is exactly the time to expect a mass exodus. We are at a major turning point.
Literally, the next hour, he says this
And I’m curious how Morph will react in the months and years to come as the organisation continues to disintegrate.
This is what I'm not getting, which is it? Is the org going to have a mass exodus and collapse or simply disintegrate and slowly shrink.
Some of the treads today, slim is clearing stretching things to fit his view. Look we all do that from time to time, but today it seems a little more. Not trying to call you out slim but I face palmed a few times today.
For the record, one thing we all can agree on is that we would love to see an imminent demise!
i heard laurel and the wife heard yanny.
maybe someone can post the spoken word..
I only heard Laurel.
i have to say that the talk was very good.
instead of just repeating a jw manual , the speaker actually spoke about my brother!
there were a few scriptures with the jw hope but 80 % of the talk was actually about the life of my brother.
Sorry for your loss Min but I'm glad they made the talk more about your brother than about his religion.
hi,i'm lost and a little sad.
i actually like the jw faith.
some might call this faith cold, strict, dogmatic but they're just trying to follow rules and give back to god.
Ahava,
Welcome! You will find that the majority of people here are either ex-JWs or are associated in some way with the faith but no longer believe. But, your taking pause before committing is a good idea. I like how you've come to the real heart of the matter. Is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses really the sole spokesman of God and is the JW religion really God's earthly organization? If you find indisputable evidence of this, then obviously that's the way to go. If there is any doubt about it or actual evidence to the contrary, then you have your answer.
I'm born-in, multi-generation and after taking a hard look at the religion of my youth and family, I decided that there is more evidence that they are not lead by God than that they are. Unfortunately, once you get baptized, in order to leave you have to put up with having all current members shun you. Perhaps you don't have close family in so it doesn't really matter, but many of us have the majority of our families in the religion so it makes it a tough choice.
I found the jwfacts.com site to be very well done and really eye opening.
if i am understanding correctly only 144,000 will go to heaven, to be with jesus and help rule?
these 144,000 are witnesses only.
there is over a million jw world wide, what happens to the rest of the faithful followers.
I'll take a quick shot for you. This is the abridged version
Do the rest of the JW go to heaven but not see Jesus?Those faithful JWs and actually everyone who dies prior to the start of Armageddon (with some specific exceptions that aren't really material) are scheduled to be resurrected during the literal Millennial reign of Jesus directly after Armageddon. These ones have to face a final test after the 1,000 years when Satan and the demons are released from the abyss they are placed in during the battle of Armageddon. Any who follow them are destroyed forever. Any who die (which includes all non-JWs and any JWs like me who are but don't believe a word of their BS) at Armageddon are destroyed forever.
Who are the anointed? Are they here on earth? How do you become anointed? Who says if your anointed or not?It's one of the least understood things about JWism. Interesting, prior to 1935, all JWs were considered anointed.That's the year the came up with the "earthly" class of Christians when they realized that 144,000 literal number including all the Christians in the 1st Century wasn't going to work out for them. It's a "conviction" an individual has. Also, in order to be on the Governing Body which are the top leaders of the religion, you have to be anointed. So, some recent appointees suddenly go their calling a few years before being promoted. The number of anointed (yes, they measure everything) has gone up in recent years which flies in the face of their doctrine. No explanation has been given.
Lastly, what about Christians from other denominations where will they go? Christians that believe in Jesus, the bible .. what happens to them?
Either they die prior to Armageddon or they are killed by Jesus and the angry angles. JWs believe they are the only "real" Christians. Everyone else is part of false religion.
Let's review, its a cult!
a few years ago i attended the kingdom hall during "easter" as my mother in law asked me to come to a service.
i was hesitant at first, being a christian and a believer in jesus, she told me that jw believe in jesus and to come see for myself.
i finally agreed to go.
CS,
Yeah, it is super confusing. You correctly point out that the scripture refers to them as 1) Jews with 12,000 out of each tribe (but they don't correspond exactly with the tribes of Israel), and 2) male virgins.
To me, the insane part of the teaching is that the part about them being Jews (spiritual Israel in JW speak) and male virgins are symbolic but the 144,000 is literal. Either its all symbolic or all literal. It makes no sense to pick and choose but that's what JWs do on virtually every aspect of their unique teachings.
a few years ago i attended the kingdom hall during "easter" as my mother in law asked me to come to a service.
i was hesitant at first, being a christian and a believer in jesus, she told me that jw believe in jesus and to come see for myself.
i finally agreed to go.
JWs believe that only a literal 144,000 "true" Christians will go to heaven. They refer to these folks as "anointed". They believe that the Eucharist was established as a covenant to rule as kings and priests with Jesus. Therefore, only the individuals that are anointed are allowed to take the bread and wine. That number is supposed to include all of the anointed that have ever lived, back to the apostles.
As you can see, the math likely doesn't add up and obviously the scriptures having to do with that number are symbolic (if you believe in the Bible which is appears you do).
Most elders are not anointed and there are only about 18,000 or so that partake in the emblems each year. I'll let others go into more detail.
tell us a little about yourself and your family.
my mother introduced me to her jw world when i was 12. i had to attend the weekly book study....boring!!!!
plus the disney tv show was on tuesday eve 8 to 9 and once a month they did a space show......no matter how hard i tried couldn’t get out of that bk study.
Thanks Gio!
